Трябва ли Паолини да бъде съден за плагиатство?

[Roland]

http://imdb.com/title/tt0449010/board/t ... 6#61997256

Много интересен топик (поне за мен), за съжаление на английски. Бейсикли, хората изброяват не само филмите/книгите, от които Паолини се е... "инспирирал", но и пействат сравнения на имена и ЦЕЛИ СЦЕНИ, да не говорим за аутлайн на сюжетите.

Мен ми беше интересно, въпреки че като цяло не се стига доникъде, щото дечицата повтарят като папагали "ако наистина беше плагиатство, някой щеше да си е отворил устата" (въпреки че неколкократно им се разясни, че нито Лукас, нито Толкин-семействтото или Едингсите могат да си позволят да съдят 23-годишен "млад перспективен автор", без пресата да ги направи на гъз), но пак е интересно, особено аргументите ЗА това, че е мръсен плагиат

Препоръчвам изчитане от до.

[AlDim]

Бе не ми е ясно защо само на малки гъзчета трябва да им е позволено да съдят големи гъзове. Това е като да кажеш, че никой не бива да съди мангалчета, които не си плащат тока.

[BaYa]

За това май трябва да се логна, а аз нямам голям интерес. Та ако някой го пусне, макар и в едно спойлерче ...

[Roland]

Не може, огромен топик от отделни постове е. А логването става за 1 минута

[Xellos]

Бля твърде мноо за четене и то маса глупости. Мноу неудобно е напраено там.

[Roland]

Да, но се чете бързо, аз го минах за 10 минути.

[Xellos]

10 min wasted

[Yan]

"Get the facts straight. Christopher didn't copy word for word...He may have been careless..."

So this is just careless coincidence:

From 'Lord of the Rings'...

Names:
-Eragon (Aragorn)
-Arya (Arwen)
-Elessari (Elessar)
-Valinor (Valinor)
-Beor (Beorn)
-The Lonely Mountain (The Lonely Mountain)
-Melian (Melian)
-Morgothal (Morgoth)
-Isenstar (Isengard)
-Imiladris (Imladris)
-Hadarac Desert (Harad Desert)
-Mithrim (mithril)
-Eridor (Eriador)
-Angrenost (Angrenost)
-Furnost (Fornost)
-The Grey Folk (The Grey Folk)


Setting/Back Story:
-The concept that Elves are very beautiful, tall, and have hyper-keen senses, and extraordinary voices
-The idea that Elves are closely linked with nature; houses in trees
-The details of the Dwarfish religion
-The idea that Dwarves and Elves feud
-The concept that Elves came from “over the sea”
-The concept of Elvish immortality, except in cases of heart break and mortal wounds
-The concept of Elf-Human relationships (and the length to which one must go to achieve it)
-The concept that Dwarves are a rough, gruff, rock-loving race with great skill in gem and stone crafting
-The concept that elves do not sleep, but merely dream
-The God-blessèd map that is practically a replica


Plot:
-Love interest between Man (Eragon/Aragorn) and Elf (Arya/Arwen) and the great lengths required to fulfil it.

And From Star Wars:

Plot:
-The concept that a “good” character turns “evil” (Morzan/Anakin) after a great loss (dragon/Amidala (or, alternatively, Anakin’s mother)
-The concept of a mother (Selena/Amidala) having two children (Murtagh & Eragon/Leia & Luke) who are separated and meet later under difficult circumstances.
-The concept that a poor farm boy (Eragon/Luke) has a greater heritage than he realizes (Morzan/Anakin)
-The concept that a poor farm boy (Eragon/Luke) lives with a close relative (Uncle Garrow/Uncle Owen) because of his mother’s premature death
-The concept that, just before capture, a princess (Arya/Leia) sends something (Dragon Egg/R2D2) far away to protect something (Saphira/recording).
-The concept that a poor farm boy (Eragon/Luke) picks up said something while doing regular work (hunting/trading)
-The idea that a poor farm boy loses his uncle (Uncle Garrow/Uncle Owen) to the hands of "the Empire"
-The passing on of a weapon (Zar’roc/lightsaber) from father to son (Morzan & Eragon/Anakin & Luke) through another source (Brom/Obi Wan Kenobi)
-The concept of a wise old man who is among the last of a declining resistance (Brom/Obi Wan Kenobi) teaching the descendant of a once-friend-now-rival (Morzan/Anakin)
-The concept of a group of "good" rebels bent on destroying "the Empire"
-The concept of an initial battle (Battle of Farthen Dur/Battle of the Death Star) which is ultimately won
-The concept of a new teacher (Oromis/Yoda) who takes the place of the old one (Brom/Obi Wan) under certain circumstances and present also lessons of philosophy
-Father/Son Revelations


Larry

[Yan]

Something I found on another board, on the subject of plagiarism:

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Attributed totally to Fujiko Kurokawa at the Anti Shurtugal forums:

Isn't this plagiarism ?

- The Ruby Knight (David Eddings - 1991):

Our hero Sparhawk tries to cross the bridge with his traveling companions, the young boy Talen among them.

Beside the ford stood a small hut. The man who owned it was a sharped eyed fellow in a green tunic who demanded a toll to cross. Rather than argue with him, Sparhawk paid what he asked. “Tell me neighbour,” he asked when the transaction was completed “how far is the Pelosian border?”
“About five leagues” the sharp eyed man replied. “If you move along, you should reach it by afternoon.”
They splashed on across the ford. When they reached the other side, Talen rode up to Sparhawk. Here’s your money back,” the young boy said, handing over several coins.
Sparhawk gave him a startled look.
“I don’t object to paying a toll to cross a bridge” Talen sniffed. “After all, someone had to go to the expense of building it. That fellow was just taking advantage of a natural shallow place in the river. It didn’t cost him anything, so why should he make a profit from it?
"You cut his purse, then?"
“Naturally.”
“And there was more in it than just my coins?”
“A bit. Let’s call it my fee for recovering your money. After all, I deserve a profit too, don’t I?”
“You’re incorrigible.”
“I needed the practice.”
From the other side of the river came a howl of anguish.
“I’d say he just discovered his loss” observed Sparhawk.
“It does sort of sound that way, doesn’t it?


and then we have..

- Eragon (Christopher Paolini - 2003):

The Anora River flowed between them and the town, spanned by a stout bridge. As they approached it, a greasy man stepped (out) from behind a bush and barred their way. His shirt was too short and his dirty stomach spilled over a rope belt. Behind his cracked lips, his teeth looked like crumbling tombstones.

“You c’n stop right there. This’s my bridge. Gotta pay t’ get over.”
“How much?” asked Brom in a resigned voice. He pulled out a pouch and the bridge keeper brightened.
“Five crowns” he said, pulling his lips into a broad smile.
Eragon’s temper flared at the exorbitant price, and he started to complain hotly, but Brom silenced him with a quick look. The coins were wordlessly handed over. The man put them into a sack hanging from his belt.
“Thank’ee much” he said in a mocking tone and stood out of the way.
As Brom stepped forward, he stumbled and caught the bridge keeper’s arm to support himself.
“Watch y’re step” snarled the grimy man sidling away.
“Sorry” apologised Brom, and continued over the bridge with Eragon.
“Why didn’t you haggle? He skinned you alive!” exclaimed Eragon. He probably doesn’t even own the bridge.”
“Probably” agreed Brom.
“Then why pay him?” Because you can’t argue with all the fools in the world. It’s easier to let them have their way, then trick them when they’re not paying attention.” Brom opened his hand, and a pile of coins glinted in the sun.
“You cut his purse!” said Eragon incredulously. Brom pocketed the money with a wink. There was a sudden howl of anguish from the other side of the river. “I’d say our friend has just discovered his loss.”

[Ghibli]

Горе-долу са прави май хората, освен за нещата, изброени в Setting/Back story - тях ги има в огромната маса от фентъзита (елфите, джуджетата и другите глупости - всички са ги крали от Толкин, респ. някакви митологии).

Въх, вторият цитат...

[Demandred]

Хубаво ще е да бъде осъден най-накрая някой от най-наглите плагиати в фентъзи жанра , че да се постреснат малко другите в бъдеще...

[Xellos]

Ми уви тва си е медиен шум и няма да му намали продажбите даже напротив ;(. Тряя се издъни яко просто издателството с парите вместо да се дига шум. да надяваме че продълженията и втория филм ше са фалит.

[Roland]

Еми той и първият е некъв крах, какъвто ФОКС не са имали от години...

[Xellos]

Е добро начало, ма все пак няма да ги спре.

[Ghibli]

Още един цитат от темата, който доста ме впечатли.

Eragon (...) is the literary equivilent of Paint By Numbers. It's okay, but it's not art.

Те това е. Не знам дали Паолини трябва да бъде съден, това си е работа на засегнатите страни. Но знам, че не трябва книга с такава потресаваща кражба на идеи и липса на оригиналност да бъде толкова добре приета от публиката. Не е правилно просто.