А колкото до "Троя", ще прощаваш, ама там си беше пълна гавра с оригиналната история - Парис се бие с Менелай, губи, и Хектор убива Менелай - да бе!!! Това че в оригиналната история Менелай всъщност накрая си тръгва с Елена явно не е от толкова голямо значение ...armageddon wrote:(горе долу както Троя е по Илиадата)
The Vampire Chronicles
Прав си, беше много повече разработен в следващата книга, "Вампирът Лестат". Иначе и аз щях това да кажа, филмът отговаря почти изцяло на книгата - спестили са хомосексуалните намеци, разбира се, но извън това си е много по книгата.
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armageddon
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Чак пък в "разрез" с книгата ... Наистина, някои неща бяха спестени, ама то и така филма беше към два часа и половина. Не съм съгласен за театъра, сцената с проституките я нямаше, но в книгата недвусмислено се споменаваше как Лестат обичал да живее като аристократ в Ню Орлийнс и т.н. Единственото, за което си прав, е че краят наистина не се връзва с продълженията.
Но по никакъв начин не могат да се сравняват двете екранизации - все пак в "Троя" имаме пълна промяна на една от основните сюжетни линии (т.е. какво става с Елена/Менелай/Парис), и то напълно безсмислена. Както и да е, това са отделни изкуства, не можеш да имаш абсолютно точна и вярна екранизация на книга, освен ако книгата не е писана с идеята за филмов сценарий (пр. Дан Браун).
Но по никакъв начин не могат да се сравняват двете екранизации - все пак в "Троя" имаме пълна промяна на една от основните сюжетни линии (т.е. какво става с Елена/Менелай/Парис), и то напълно безсмислена. Както и да е, това са отделни изкуства, не можеш да имаш абсолютно точна и вярна екранизация на книга, освен ако книгата не е писана с идеята за филмов сценарий (пр. Дан Браун).
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Армагедон, аз също не съм съгласен за сцената с театъра, боят със Сантиаго си е там, а сцената с проститутките , между другото, в книгата я имаше, при това с почти същите реплики.(макар да не съм сигурен дали беше казано, че са проститутки).
Ето я сцената с боя:
"Someone thundered on the boards above-in rooms I'd never seen. And then I heard the
unmistakable opening of a door. But it was too late, I told myself, gripping both the
scythe and the torch. The building was alight. They would be destroyed. I ran for the
stairs, a distant cry rising over the crackling and roaring of the flames, my torch scraping
the kerosene-soaked rafters above me, the flames enveloping the old wood, curling
against the damp ceiling. It was Santiago's cry, I was sure of it; and then, as I hit the
lower floor, I saw him above, behind me, coming down the stairs, the smoke filling the
stairwell around him, his eyes watering, his throat thickened with his choking, his hand
out towards me as he stammered, `You . . .you . . . damn you!' And I froze, narrowing my
eyes against the smoke, feeling the water rising in them, burning in them, but never
letting go of his image for an instant, the vampire using all his power now to fly at me
with such speed that he would become invisible. And as the dark thing that was his
clothes rushed down, I swung the scythe and saw it strike his neck and felt the weight of
his neck and saw him fall sideways, both hands reaching for the appalling wound. The air
was full of cries, of screams, and a white face loomed above Santiago, a mask of terror.
Some other vampire ran through the passage ahead of me towards that secret alleyway
door. But I stood there poised, staring at Santiago, seeing him rise despite the wound.
And I swung the scythe again, catching him easily. And there was no wound. Just two
hands groping for a head that was no longer there.
"And the head, blood coursing from the torn neck, the eyes staring wild under the flaming
rafters, the dark silky hair matted and wet with blood, fell at my feet. I struck it hard with
my boot, I sent it flying along the passage. And I ran after it; the torch and the scythe
thrown aside as my arms went up to protect me from the blaze of white light that flooded
the stairs to the alley.
"
Ето я сцената с проститутките
"Well, as I've said, Lestat amazed me in his new calm, his thoughtfulness. But that
evening I didn't wake to find him the same way, not at first. There were women in the
parlor. The candles were a few, scattered on the small table and the carved buffet, and
Lestat had his arm around one woman and was kissing her: She was very drunk and very
beautiful, a great drugged doll of a woman with her careful coif falling slowly down on
her bare shoulders and over her partially bared breasts. The other woman sat over a
ruined supper table drinking a glass of wine. I could see that the three of them had dined
(Lestat pretending to dine . . . you would be surprised how people do not notice that a
vampire is only pretending to eat), and the woman at the table was bored. All this put me
in a fit of agitation. I did not know what Lestat was up to. If I went into the room, the
woman would turn her attentions to me. And what was to happen, I couldn't imagine,
except that Lestat meant for us to kill them both. The woman on the settee with him was
already teasing about his kisses, his coldness, his lack of desire for her. And the woman
at the table watched with black almond eyes that seemed to be filled with satisfaction;
when Lestat rose and came to her, putting his hands on her bare white arms, she
brightened. Bending now to kiss her, he saw me through the crack in the door. And his
eyes just stared at me for a moment, and then he went on talking with the ladies. He bent
down and blew out the candles on the table. `It's too dark in here,' said the woman on the
couch. `Leave us alone,' said the other woman. Lestat sat down and beckoned her to sit in
his lap. And she did, putting her left arm around his neck, her right hand smoothing back
his yellow hair. `Your skin's icy,' she said, recoiling slightly. `Not always,' said Lestat;
and then he buried his face in the flesh of her neck. I was watching all this with
fascination. Lestat was masterfully clever and utterly vicious, but I didn't know how
clever he was until he sank his teeth into her now, his thumb pressing down on her throat,
his other arm locking her, tight, so that he drank his fill without the other woman even
knowing. `Your friend has no head for wine,' he said slipping out of the chair and seating
the unconscious woman there, her arms folded under her face on the table. `She's stupid,'
said the other woman, who had gone to the window and had been looking out at the
lights. New Orleans was then a city of many low buildings, as you probably know. And
on such clear nights as this, the lamplit streets were beautiful from the high windows of
this new Spanish hotel; and the stars of those days bung low over such dim light as they
do at sea. `I can warm that cold skin of yours better than she can.' She turned to Lestat,
and I must confess I was feeling some relief that he would now take care of her as well.
But he planned nothing so simple. `Do you think so?' he said to her. He took her hand,
and she said, `Why, you're warm"'
А края, при положение, че създателите на филма разбираемо въобще не са имали продълженията предвид , си е напълно адекватен. Така де, малко е странно, след като правиш филм, да го съобразяваш с продълженията на книгата, по която е правен. Ако са били предвидили самия филм да има продължение, добре. Но силно се съмнявам.
Живик, в "Троя" малко пропускаш момента с една друга основна линия- тази на Боговете. Тях просто ги няма. Така че другите промени за мен са оправдани. Пък и в самите надписи си го има- не "Базирано на Илиадата", а "Вдъхновено от...". Това не ги поставя в положение да се придържат към сюжета, според мен. А това, че филмът наистина не беше нищо кой знае колко, това е отделен въпрос
Ето я сцената с боя:
"Someone thundered on the boards above-in rooms I'd never seen. And then I heard the
unmistakable opening of a door. But it was too late, I told myself, gripping both the
scythe and the torch. The building was alight. They would be destroyed. I ran for the
stairs, a distant cry rising over the crackling and roaring of the flames, my torch scraping
the kerosene-soaked rafters above me, the flames enveloping the old wood, curling
against the damp ceiling. It was Santiago's cry, I was sure of it; and then, as I hit the
lower floor, I saw him above, behind me, coming down the stairs, the smoke filling the
stairwell around him, his eyes watering, his throat thickened with his choking, his hand
out towards me as he stammered, `You . . .you . . . damn you!' And I froze, narrowing my
eyes against the smoke, feeling the water rising in them, burning in them, but never
letting go of his image for an instant, the vampire using all his power now to fly at me
with such speed that he would become invisible. And as the dark thing that was his
clothes rushed down, I swung the scythe and saw it strike his neck and felt the weight of
his neck and saw him fall sideways, both hands reaching for the appalling wound. The air
was full of cries, of screams, and a white face loomed above Santiago, a mask of terror.
Some other vampire ran through the passage ahead of me towards that secret alleyway
door. But I stood there poised, staring at Santiago, seeing him rise despite the wound.
And I swung the scythe again, catching him easily. And there was no wound. Just two
hands groping for a head that was no longer there.
"And the head, blood coursing from the torn neck, the eyes staring wild under the flaming
rafters, the dark silky hair matted and wet with blood, fell at my feet. I struck it hard with
my boot, I sent it flying along the passage. And I ran after it; the torch and the scythe
thrown aside as my arms went up to protect me from the blaze of white light that flooded
the stairs to the alley.
"
Ето я сцената с проститутките
"Well, as I've said, Lestat amazed me in his new calm, his thoughtfulness. But that
evening I didn't wake to find him the same way, not at first. There were women in the
parlor. The candles were a few, scattered on the small table and the carved buffet, and
Lestat had his arm around one woman and was kissing her: She was very drunk and very
beautiful, a great drugged doll of a woman with her careful coif falling slowly down on
her bare shoulders and over her partially bared breasts. The other woman sat over a
ruined supper table drinking a glass of wine. I could see that the three of them had dined
(Lestat pretending to dine . . . you would be surprised how people do not notice that a
vampire is only pretending to eat), and the woman at the table was bored. All this put me
in a fit of agitation. I did not know what Lestat was up to. If I went into the room, the
woman would turn her attentions to me. And what was to happen, I couldn't imagine,
except that Lestat meant for us to kill them both. The woman on the settee with him was
already teasing about his kisses, his coldness, his lack of desire for her. And the woman
at the table watched with black almond eyes that seemed to be filled with satisfaction;
when Lestat rose and came to her, putting his hands on her bare white arms, she
brightened. Bending now to kiss her, he saw me through the crack in the door. And his
eyes just stared at me for a moment, and then he went on talking with the ladies. He bent
down and blew out the candles on the table. `It's too dark in here,' said the woman on the
couch. `Leave us alone,' said the other woman. Lestat sat down and beckoned her to sit in
his lap. And she did, putting her left arm around his neck, her right hand smoothing back
his yellow hair. `Your skin's icy,' she said, recoiling slightly. `Not always,' said Lestat;
and then he buried his face in the flesh of her neck. I was watching all this with
fascination. Lestat was masterfully clever and utterly vicious, but I didn't know how
clever he was until he sank his teeth into her now, his thumb pressing down on her throat,
his other arm locking her, tight, so that he drank his fill without the other woman even
knowing. `Your friend has no head for wine,' he said slipping out of the chair and seating
the unconscious woman there, her arms folded under her face on the table. `She's stupid,'
said the other woman, who had gone to the window and had been looking out at the
lights. New Orleans was then a city of many low buildings, as you probably know. And
on such clear nights as this, the lamplit streets were beautiful from the high windows of
this new Spanish hotel; and the stars of those days bung low over such dim light as they
do at sea. `I can warm that cold skin of yours better than she can.' She turned to Lestat,
and I must confess I was feeling some relief that he would now take care of her as well.
But he planned nothing so simple. `Do you think so?' he said to her. He took her hand,
and she said, `Why, you're warm"'
А края, при положение, че създателите на филма разбираемо въобще не са имали продълженията предвид , си е напълно адекватен. Така де, малко е странно, след като правиш филм, да го съобразяваш с продълженията на книгата, по която е правен. Ако са били предвидили самия филм да има продължение, добре. Но силно се съмнявам.
Живик, в "Троя" малко пропускаш момента с една друга основна линия- тази на Боговете. Тях просто ги няма. Така че другите промени за мен са оправдани. Пък и в самите надписи си го има- не "Базирано на Илиадата", а "Вдъхновено от...". Това не ги поставя в положение да се придържат към сюжета, според мен. А това, че филмът наистина не беше нищо кой знае колко, това е отделен въпрос
Аз и затова не споменах за боговете, но просто спорът започна от изявлението, че "Интервю с вампир" била горе-долу толкова вярна с оригинала екранизация, колкото и "Троя", което мисля, че е очевидно погрешно. Иначе наистина, човек като напише "вдъхновено от" може да си интерпретира както иска. Но това пак не променя факта, че "Интервю с вампир", поне според мен, отговаря значително (макар и не напълно) на историята в книгата.Trip wrote:Живик, в "Троя" малко пропускаш момента с една друга основна линия- тази на Боговете. Тях просто ги няма. Така че другите промени за мен са оправдани. Пък и в самите надписи си го има- не "Базирано на Илиадата", а "Вдъхновено от...". Това не ги поставя в положение да се придържат към сюжета, според мен. А това, че филмът наистина не беше нищо кой знае колко, това е отделен въпрос
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Не знам, за мен е идеална адаптация филмът. Някои хора забравят, че между едно произведение и адаптацията му в друго изкуство пълно равенство е не само невъзможно, но и нежелателно. Но за "разрези" между книгата и филма тук изобщо не може да става дума.
And you can't dance with a devil on your back...
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armageddon
- Forsaken
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Trip, абе имал съм впредвид че не ми е харесало как са направени самите сцени (пък и филмът като цяло). Толкоз за точни реплики и тн мисля че не съм издребнявал, но факта че филма не ми хареса си остава.
А други хора, като гледам, забравят, че хората, на които им е харесало дадено произведение в един вид творчество, същото произведение не е задължително да им хареса и в друг.
А други хора, като гледам, забравят, че хората, на които им е харесало дадено произведение в един вид творчество, същото произведение не е задължително да им хареса и в друг.
Проблемът е там, че ти спориш за обективни неща, за които просто не си прав. Сцената в театъра в книгата е също толкова екшън, колкото и тази във филма, която между другото трае не повече от минута-две максимум.
Най-безболезненият начин би бил, ако просто беше уточнил, че не ти харесва начинът, по който са направени. Вместо това "...като например сцената с проститутките...". Какво например тази сцена?
С нищо не ми подсказва какво точно не си харесал у нея, затова реших да извадя цитати от книгата.
Освен това, тук не става въпрос за реплики, а за цели сцени. Сцени, нали се сещаш, основните неща от които книгите, и най-вече филмите, са направени.
И нека оставим обръщенията от типа "абе" за един по-нататъшен период от познанството ни, ок?
Най-безболезненият начин би бил, ако просто беше уточнил, че не ти харесва начинът, по който са направени. Вместо това "...като например сцената с проститутките...". Какво например тази сцена?
С нищо не ми подсказва какво точно не си харесал у нея, затова реших да извадя цитати от книгата.
Освен това, тук не става въпрос за реплики, а за цели сцени. Сцени, нали се сещаш, основните неща от които книгите, и най-вече филмите, са направени.
И нека оставим обръщенията от типа "абе" за един по-нататъшен период от познанството ни, ок?
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Theodelinda
- Scholar
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Аз съм напълно съгласна, че не е задължително филмите да са абсолютно идентични с книгите, по които са правени. Най-малкото, че всеки чете и възприема по различен начин. Но май по-добрия вариант е , ако искаш да оцениш филма чрез собствените му достойнства, да не четеш книгата предварително. Иначе неминуемо ги сравняваш и оставаш разочарован от едното от двете.
На мен в случая не само не ми пука до колко са идентични двете неща, ами като се има предвид че това е един от първите филми за вампири, които са ме впечатлили и какъв маниак съм на тази тема изобщо не стои въпроса пред мен
На мен в случая не само не ми пука до колко са идентични двете неща, ами като се има предвид че това е един от първите филми за вампири, които са ме впечатлили и какъв маниак съм на тази тема изобщо не стои въпроса пред мен
CREDENDO VIDES!
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vampire_girl
- Commoner
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JaimeLannister
- Forsaken
- Posts: 3103
- Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:31 pm
- Location: Лясковец - София
Abe niakoi moje li da mi kaje ot sichkite tia vampirski hroniki koia e purvata kniga?
Izobshto v kakuv red vurviat?
Ne zaradi drugo ami sum reshil da si kupia i da ceta neshto puk niamam mnogo svobodno vreme daproucvam neshtata...
10x predvaritelno...
Izobshto v kakuv red vurviat?
Ne zaradi drugo ami sum reshil da si kupia i da ceta neshto puk niamam mnogo svobodno vreme daproucvam neshtata...
10x predvaritelno...
"Основната и крайна цел на живота е смъртта и той винаги я постига." Зигмунд Фройд
"PRESENT IS THE TIME INCLUDING ALL TIMES
EACH SECOND IS ETERNITY AS ETERNITY IS NOW
AND NOW IS FOREVER..."
Курвите идват и си отиват, Star craft остава!
"PRESENT IS THE TIME INCLUDING ALL TIMES
EACH SECOND IS ETERNITY AS ETERNITY IS NOW
AND NOW IS FOREVER..."
Курвите идват и си отиват, Star craft остава!
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armageddon
- Forsaken
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The Vampire Chronicles:
Interview with the Vampire (1976)
The Vampire Lestat (1985)
The Queen of the Damned (1988)
The Tale of the Body Thief (1992)
Memnoch The Devil (1995)
The Vampire Armand (1998)
Merrick (2000)
Blood and Gold (2001)
Blackwood Farm (2002)
Blood Canticle (2003)
New Tales of the Vampires: (Other vampire tales that are not within the main sequence, but in the same fictional world)
Pandora (1998)
Vittorio the Vampire (1999)
Lives of The Mayfair Witches:
( It's a good idea to read these novels before reading "Blackwood Farm" as the two series merge at this point.)
The Witching Hour (1990)
Lasher (1993)
Taltos (1994)[/quote]
Interview with the Vampire (1976)
The Vampire Lestat (1985)
The Queen of the Damned (1988)
The Tale of the Body Thief (1992)
Memnoch The Devil (1995)
The Vampire Armand (1998)
Merrick (2000)
Blood and Gold (2001)
Blackwood Farm (2002)
Blood Canticle (2003)
New Tales of the Vampires: (Other vampire tales that are not within the main sequence, but in the same fictional world)
Pandora (1998)
Vittorio the Vampire (1999)
Lives of The Mayfair Witches:
( It's a good idea to read these novels before reading "Blackwood Farm" as the two series merge at this point.)
The Witching Hour (1990)
Lasher (1993)
Taltos (1994)[/quote]
-
JaimeLannister
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- Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 7:31 pm
- Location: Лясковец - София
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